8:12 pm, July 10, 2014

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  • Lumping all IRS employees
    mobsquad246
    Most of our office is just shaking our heads this past week following the news of a few employees' mistakes. Morale is at an all time low.
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  • Illegitimi non carborundum!
    FERS_Fed
    Hang in there.
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  • Sounds like the 1998 hearings with the same results.
    Moderate
    I agree, but I doubt that auditors and collection people will be affected.
    worker
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  • Nope....
    NOVAJacket
    the press is underblowing this scandal. Look at this in the context of the Hatch Act - - designed to prevent government employees from using tax dollars to unduly influence elections. This is WAY WAY WAY worse. And you know it. How do we know that the President's election campaign did not coordinate the activities of the IRS to try and make the opposition's job harder? Because a few people say so? There are a lot of employees at the IRS who would like nothing better than to make the Tea Pary's life hell while giving liberal oriented groups a pass. I don't believe them any more than I belive the President had no knowledge of this scandal before it hit the fan. We have idiots in the media declaring that the IRS was doing its job investigating people who want to shrink government. This sounds like the old Soviet Union. This is only the beginning.....
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  • "How do we know that the President's election campaign did not coordinate the activities of the IRS..."?
    FERS_Fed
    How do you know the President's election campaign DID coordinate the activities of the IRS? ..... Or like Sen. Mitch McConnell, have you no proof either?
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  • Yep...no proof....YET
    NOVAJacket
    But where this is smoke, there is fire. Hopefully enough people who want to know the truth about what happened will demand a special prosecutor. It is amazing how the story is changing as time goes on. All the while files are being deleted and papers shredded. Imagine if this had happened during the previous administration. The press would have been all over this, and all of today's Obama defenders would have been absolutely ballistic in their indignation..... Hypocrites like Bill Maher are the backbone of the Democratic Party - - which is why I left it years ago.
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  • You do understand that...
    FERS_Fed
    ...at the time these events occurred, the IRS was being run by IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman, a Bush appointee.
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  • Union Connection?
    ben
    With NTEU's anti-Tea Party statements, don't be surprised if a union connection and end run around the commissioner emerges.
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  • Wow, your sweep is pure nonsense
    Moderate
    Now you are accusing the IRS of knuckling under to Obama. You have no proof, just pure nonsense. Get a grip. Get your proof first. As far as this is way way worse, do you even work for the IRS or work for taxpayers as a CPA etc. Do you even have a clue as to what questions TEGE must ask to make a determination? Do you even know whether these tea party people cooperated with the interviews? Do you know whether they qualify under IRC 501(c)(4). Let the investigators do their jobs without the political manure being spouted. And the only real smoke is the hot air spouted by the politicians and the tea party and related donkeys. How do you know what is deleted and shredded. Just because something is deleted, it does not mean there is no recovery system. I know that to be a fact. Talk to a computer expert on that one.
    worker
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  • Does Anyone Understand
    ben
    ... that requesting donor and membership lists for 501c4's is a felony and possession by a fed is a felony? This was not just 4 rogue agents in Cincinnati.
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  • "...requesting donor and membership lists for 501c4's is a felony..."?
    FERS_Fed
    Interesting. One would think that particular fact (if it is one) would be highlighted in TIGTA report 2013-10-053, but yet there's no mention of it. ..... And just for a little 'fair and balanced' perspective, following is from 'What TIGTA Found' -- "For the 296 total political campaign intervention applications TIGTA reviewed as of December 17, 2012, 108 had been approved, 28 were withdrawn by the applicant, NONE HAD BEEN DENIED [emphasis added], and 160 were open from 206 to 1,138 calendar days (some for more than to the Internal Revenue Service Acting three years and crossing two election cycles)."
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  • Alabama vs NAACP
    ben
    Alabama vs. NAACP SCOTUS decision (1953) determined that governments may not demand copies of donor or membership lists. To demand falsely anything not legally allowed under color of authority is a felony. Denying the actions for years over two election cycles kept the organizations from contributing to the election process. Not illegal, but a nasty bit of sabotage.
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  • "Not illegal, but a nasty bit of sabotage"?
    FERS_Fed
    Please explain how not being granted tax exempt status 'sabotaged' anything any Tea Party chapter did during the last two election cycles. Personally, I don't recall the Tea Party sitting them out.
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  • Easy
    ben
    Since the Tea Party organizations did not have non-profit charity status that limited their ability to seek donations as donations weren't tax deductible. There are going to be law suits concerning, among other things, that. Good luck, of any of the feds you know are caught up in this mess. The old Chinese curse, "May your life be filled with lawyers," will apply.
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  • Didn't Ethics Training
    ben
    ... for IRS warn agents and others about the implications I've just brought up? If not, there is going to be a real stink. I'm taking no pleasure in this. I'm not anti-fed, as I stated many times.
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  • Not anti fed?
    Moderate
    Ben, when is the last time you supported fed workers against the public or the politicians?
    worker
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  • This did nothing "that limited their ability to seek donations"
    FERS_Fed
    They could still seek all the donations their hard little Tea Party hearts desired. ..... It MAY have influenced the donations they actually received, but then so might anything else, for example, the crappy economy. ..... Good luck proving a negative in court.
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  • That's The Point
    ben
    The parties suing will, after winning, if the Government is stupid enough not to settle out of court, simply parade in a number of donors to testify the amounts they would have given if tax exempt status was granted. Then, apply those to a statistical sample, accepted in courts for about 40 years, to determine the total. Jury(ies) will set the amount, which the judge(s) may leave as set, or decrease. With the IRS's great popularity (snicker) among citizens, would you really want to go that route!
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  • Pretty sure that...
    FERS_Fed
    ...if litigated, it would be in Tax Court, not before a jury for the very reason -- "With the IRS's great popularity (snicker) among citizens" -- you cite.
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  • No
    ben
    Tax Courts have purview over tax matters, not civil damages. The Government overstepped its constitutional limitations, causing financial harm to the plaintiffs. Sorry, not tax court -- civil court with judge and jury, if the Government is dumb enough not to settle.
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  • It's off
    Moderate
    I will agree with you that tax court is not the venue for the alleged suits. I will disagree with you about the suits. Yes, the tea party will get its stooges to testify. The IRS will have the right to verify that thes people did not donate. That involves subpoenas for the donor lists which better tie in to the records. If they do not, then that might be a felony. What are you writing about in your blog its on?
    worker
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  • Its On
    ben
    True The Vote filed in federal court against six unnamed IRS employees for 501c4 approval and damaged -- not in tax court.
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  • Treasury IG Investigation
    ben
    .. has begun. This is much more detailed than the audit report. Auditors and investigators (special agents with badges and guns) will be looking at the chain of events, trace up how the decision to select organizations, and examine who designed the questionnaire with extreme, and illegal, questions.
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  • Good, now maybe the fact ....
    FERS_Fed
    ... documented in the TIGTA audit report that Tea Party applications accounted for only one-third of the total number of organizations seeking tax-exempt status at the time -- and are the ONLY ones crying about it -- will get more play.
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  • Because The Tea Party And
    ben
    ... other conservative/libertarian organizations were the one singled out and a preponderance of those facing excessive scrutiny and extreme delays.
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  • "...conservative/libertarian organizations were the one singled out..."?
    FERS_Fed
    Not according to 'What TIGTA Found' -- "For the 296 total political campaign intervention applications TIGTA reviewed as of December 17, 2012, 108 had been approved, 28 were withdrawn by the applicant, NONE HAD BEEN DENIED [emphasis added], and 160 were open from 206 to 1,138 calendar days (some for more than to the Internal Revenue Service Acting three years and crossing two election cycles)." ..... Sounds like all applicants were treated equally badly.
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  • Not quite
    ben
    "WHAT TIGTA FOUND The IRS used inappropriate criteria that identified for review Tea Party and other organizations applying for tax exempt status based upon their names or policy positions instead of indications of potential political campaign intervention. Ineffective management: 1) allowed inappropriate criteria to be developed and stay in place for more than 18 months, 2) resulted in substantial delays in processing certain applications, and 3) allowed unnecessary information requests to be issued." Add, the admitted excessive delays, you cited and the subsequent Bolo list spreadsheet and conservative/libertarian organizations were almost all that were selected.
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  • Tell us Mr. Expert
    Moderate
    These are filters used to set up the examinations. And what other filters were used? Tell us Mr. expert and why were they all used?
    worker
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